Tiger Woods and Sean Foley
September 3rd, 2010 | 
Author: 
Tiger and Foley
Here is an excellent article that I came across that explains a little more about Sean Foley and his relationship with Tiger Woods and Stack and Tilt’s Bennett and Plummer:
(Robert Lusetich/Fox Sports)
Sean Foley has “no interest” in getting Tiger Woods to swing as he did in 2000, when the world No. 1 had arguably the greatest year in the history of golf.
“That was how he learned to swing, and he had great success with it but it was penal on the body and dependent on timing,” said Foley, who’s working with Woods this week at the Deutsche Bank tournament outside of Boston. “It was pretty looking, but it just wasn’t the most efficient way to swing.”
Woods won four straight majors from the middle of 2000 to April, 2001, but it came at a cost.
The way he snapped his left leg on the downswing, Foley and Woods agree, caused serious damage to the knee, which had to be reconstructed in 2008.
“This is nothing against Butch (Harmon, who was Woods’ coach at the time) but trying to go back to that would be a huge mistake,” Foley said. “Plus, he can’t rotate like he did when he was an elastic kid. He’s nearly 35, he doesn’t have that body anymore.”
Instead, Foley has Woods more centerd over the ball throughout his swing, putting less stress on his body and, judging by the jump in fairways and greens hit last week at The Barclays, leading to improved ball-striking.
Woods has stopped shy of anointing Foley as his new coach, but on Thursday he again spoke glowingly of how much better he was playing since starting to work with the 35-year-old Canadian three weeks ago.
“I’m hitting the ball much better, hence I have more confidence,” Woods said. “I’m driving the ball much straighter, hitting the ball a little bit farther, especially with my irons, and those are all positive signs.
“It’s just a matter of, as I said, making it a little bit more natural, and that’s just reps.”
Although Woods has been careful not to criticize the unorthodox teaching methods of his previous coach, Hank Haney — he made a point last week to note that they won six majors together — Foley isn’t as diplomatic.
“Let’s be honest about this, it’s not like he was flushing it with Hank,” Foley said. “I think he hasn’t been happy with how he’s hit it for a very long time.”
Indeed, Foley has spent much of their time on the range together ridding Woods of what he calls “counter-intuitive moves introduced in order to offset something else that didn’t need to be there.”
What Foley, who is enjoying the challenge of taking on golf’s most recognizable name, has in common with Haney is that they both quickly became aware that Woods is a lightning rod.
Foley’s teaching philosophy wasn’t of particular interest to anyone outside the small world of golf swing nerds until he started working with Woods.
Now, he’s at the center of a whisper campaign that accuses him of stealing his ideas from two colleagues, Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett.
Plummer and Bennett developed a system of hitting a golf ball called Stack and Tilt, which calls for players to keep their weight on their front leg throughout the swing.
Though hailed as revolutionary, it was met with derisive condemnation by the teaching establishment. Nonetheless, several players who switched to Stack and Tilt won on the PGA Tour, giving the method legitimacy.
Foley admits that he enjoyed discussing the intricacies of the swing with Plummer and Bennett, whom he likes and respects, but ultimately, he credits them with “maybe 5 percent” of the inspiration behind his own, very similar, swing ideas.
“Andy and Mike are very bright guys, but how much of what they teach is Mac O’Grady?” Foley said of golf’s Bobby Fisher, a tortured genius who’s spent years breaking down the secrets of golf.
“And how much did they take from (Sam) Snead and (Ben) Hogan? And how much of it is taken from (Isaac) Newton?”
Foley says his swing ideas were developed over 15 years. He said he learned when still a teenager trying to copy the swing of Curtis Strange — who swayed off the ball on his backswing — that keeping the weight more centred worked better.
He then studied the swings of great players in history and noticed they didn’t make dramatic weight shifts away from the ball either.
“Mike and Andy aren’t reinventing the wheel,” Foley said. “Like me, they watched old school players hit it good and realized there was something to what they were doing, but they didn’t invent the 1950 golf move.”
The most obvious difference between Stack and Tilt and Foley is that all the players taught by Plummer and Bennett swing very much alike.
Foley’s three highest-profile students (before Woods), Sean O’Hair, Hunter Mahan and Justin Rose, don’t swing anything alike.
“Stack and Tilt is one method of swinging,” Foley said. “If it’s such a great system, then why are people coming for a ‘watered-down version’ from me?”
Foley finds it amusing to hear that he’s being derided as the “flavor of the month” on the Tour practice range.
“If I’m flavor of the month then I’ve been flavor of the month for ten years,” he said. “I’m doing what I was supposed to do, I really believe that.
“There’s a sense that this was what I was meant to do, and here I am. But this is not fixing world hunger, this is getting people who are already very good to hit a golf ball better.
“I suppose my point is that I’m not a guru, and I’m not some guy who (BS’d) his way to the top. I’m just who I am.”
Very interesting!
To learn more about better ball striking visit www.itsallaboutimpact.com
To see how Sean Foley’s other students have fared click HERE
Posted in Commentary, Practice, Swing Philosophy | 
Tags: butch harmon, hank haney, robert lusetich, sean foley, sean foley golf, stack and tilt, tiger woods
Five percent. Ha. HA HA.
I was rather surprised with the 5% as well Erik, but perhaps a little more surprised at the arrogance I detected in his responses to certain questions. What did you think?
Andrew
I have watched Sean teach my son for over 10 years since his days at Glen Abbey. from 6am to 9pm at night he would be at the range working with young Canadian juniors (for FREE) teaching them how to believe in them selves and follow their dreams. Many who are now stars in US College, Canadian tour Nationwide and PGA tour pros. Anyone who know Sean knows there isn’t an once of arrogance in him. I’ve never met a harder worker and it’s great to see him get his due.
George,
Thanks for your input. It is nice to hear that SF is not the type of person that the article led me to believe he might be. And yes, it is alway good to see a hard worker and a good guy get his due.
I hope he can turn TW around in more ways than one.
All the best,
Andrew
As a fellow teaching instructor here in Mississauga, Canada. Myself and my fellow CPGA professionals all know Sean (some better than others). He works extremely hard at his profession. But it is not just the golf swing he studies. It is also, the mind, fitness, and health.
I’m surprised that Foley doesn’t mention Homer Kelley and his book The Golfing Machine, as one of Mac O’Grady’s and Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer and HIS major foundational sources for their “theories” about the golf swing. He should have.
Wow. Everything I read about this guy seems to indicate he is a self-absorbed jerk. But, will defer to Bradlee and George as they know him. Wonder why the articles seem to paint him in such a bad light? Maybe I’m biased against him because he seems to seek out the SnT guys so much but doesn’t give them much credit. Having spent a day with Andy Plummer at Berkeley Hall in April I can attest he is first class.
…. and Butch and Hank aren’t arrogant??????? They also have worked hard ( Butch and Hank) but for my lowly opinion it is good that TW is gone from Hank. (Good for TW)
I guess this is one of my faults—I tend to form opinions of folks just based upon what I see and read without actually meeting them. That’s why i deferred to the guys who actually know Sean Foley, and will try to use that information next time I see or read something about him.
And yes, I always thought Butch was cocky, but for some reason always liked him on TV—seemed like the kind of guy I would like to have a few beers with and listen to him tell stories. I actually did see Hank here at a golf show in Pittsburgh 2 years ago—came across as a pretty nice guy and was actually humbled to be working with Tiger. Spoke with him for about 5 minutes and seemed to be very thoughtful and pleasant. Having said that I think in the long run Tiger will be better off—-was never a fan of what he was trying to teach.
I have tried the stack and tilt, and it really is counter intuitive of what you want out of the golf swing. I hope Tiger knows what he is getting into.
Interesting article on Tiger’s new swing coach but can he make the difference in Tiger’s aging career? If Tiger does not win a major next year, then he and Jack Nicklaus will both have had fourteen pro major wins through the age of thirty-five. Many people are counting Tiger Woods out as having a chance at Nicklaus’ title, but is it still to early to count Tiger out? It took Nicklaus to age forty-six to complete his major championship record, that’s eleven more years for Tiger. Can he do it?
Found this on another Blog … note the date!, wow pre S&Tilt
Gary Anstey
October 17, 2008 at 9:20 am | Permalink | Reply
Two winters ago I was with my son and daughter hitting balls at the Orange County National range. At one end we noticed a number of juniors with great swings. My daughter who had been accepted to Williams College, one of the top ten college in the country, walked over and watched the talented players from a polite distance, in hopes of absorbing something from their fluid swings. Sean walked up to her and introduced himself and asked why she was watching. A pretty good golfer who can shoot 80 in competition, but a much better academic, Lauren’s response was simply, I would like to learn. For the next two days Sean and Lauren chatted about life and golf, hitting balls, doing drills, and discussing a myriad of topics and some of Sean’s Rastafarian viewpoints. I will forever be grateful for his kindness in helping my daughter. He did not have to reach out as he did and most would have not. A plus 3 handicap myself having played with the likes of Crenshaw, Tway, and Moe Norman amoung others I know the game well. Sean’s knowledge of golf and it’s mechanics are second to none and his insights into the mental aspects are unique. A first class person and those are rare in this world.
I think he’ll help Tiger once his mind is clear. Is it just me or does he dip right before his downswing and it seems to be worse when he’s under a little pressure?
Agreed Dennis! It’ll be interesting to watch this week as he gets under the gun.
I’m not sure why Sean Foley’s methods are being confused with stack and tilt. S&T in basic is weight moving forward during the back swing, and spine angle moving up and away during the down swing. Sean foley is teaching no lateral movement, weight is constant or slightly forward during back swing, and then moves further forward during down swing. There is no movement of the spine angle away and up from the ball. Rotation is around a constant spine angle with the sternum the focal point of the coil. Also, he teaches the head not to move at all during the back swing. Quite often players will tilt the head away from the target to accomodate shoulder rotation, this can be seen clearly in players such as Lee Westwood. Tiger moved a lot laterally off the ball with Butch, as he was trying to gain width in his take-away (low and slow, as butch liked it) But with time it grew too hard to make the same lateral move back to the ball be consistant. Haney taught him how to set the club on plane, narrowing his take-away and giving a better swing plane, however this over time became too flat, with the club more often than not too far laid off at the top and behind his wrist angle ie bowed at the top.
The golf swing is always fluid, and what seems like a good idea now, may not be in 5 years time. However great players are always seeking something new and better, and these transitions often allow them to practice harder as they are more excited about the game of golf. It is what it is. One thing needs to be clear, unless you see tiger moving forward on his back swing then straightening up and away from the target during his down swing making his path steep and narrow and finishing tall and weight left side, he is NOT stack and tilting. And he never will be
You would think the golf swing was invented when Woods started playing the tour, and that
Andy Plummer and Mike Bennet have come up with something new.
May I suggest a book written in the 40s by a teaching legend and founder member of the American P.G.A. Tommy Armour.
You’ll soon discover where Mr. Plummer and Bennet got the idea for “stack and tilt”.
In the literature world it would be referred to as plagiarism, in the golf world its called a “new” concept.
The book is called, “Play your best golf all the time “by Tommy Armour, a great Scot, who, by the way, lost an eye fight in the First World War in 1916.
I’ve had a copy for many years and have been teaching golf for more years than I wish to remember.
My favourite quote is from another legendary teacher, Homer Kelley…..
“Treating a complex subject or action as though it were simple, multiplies its complexity because of the difficulty in systematizing missing and unknown factors or elements.
Like so many things in life, demanding that golf instruction be kept simple dose not make it simple!!!! Only incomplete and ineffective.
Unless this is recognized, golf remains a vague, frustrating infuriating form of exertion”.
Guys have a look at an Australian teaching professional called Gary Edwin. He coaches Rod Pampling, Peter Lonard and a few others. His theory is about keeping your weight on your front side (not moving it into your front side) and maintaining a good spine angle to imitate IMPACT position.
Im a teaching pro from Australia and im thinking this is more what SEAN is getting at. Its not Stack and Tilt. Its creating a simple action which creates a consistent impact position.
Gary has been teaching this in australia for 30 years with alot of sucess.
Shane,
As I’ve said for a long time now – It’s All About Impact! It simply must be.
Look at George Knudson’s swing on Youtube. Classic golf swing from another era demonstrates keeping the weight on the front foot. Perhaps Sean Foley was influenced by Canada’s second best ball striker.
Ask Sean how much time he spent watching Phil Ritson coach at Orange County National. He should give some credit to Phil as so many hundreds of pros should also do. The man may not always have been easy but he was called GOD on tour during the 80s coaching so many top players. He will be inducted into the South African Hall of Fame this December and is pretty sick right now. The top golf magazines could do worse than try to find out more about the guy who taught David Leadbetter.
Andy,
My twopenny’s worth(love your website by the way).
As i see it,and i may well be wrong,the S&T people have three basic premises:
1)Weight starts on left,stays on left throughout the backswing.
2)Arms go deep in the backswing.
3)Hips thrust forward and UP in the downswing and through the impact area(and as we know,its all about the Impact!).
Sean Foleys thoughts are similar,however,i don’t see him promoting number 3 so much.He seems to advocate the turning motion on the trunk in the downswing to return the club to its starting point,not the hip thrust that the S&T people would prefer.Its also not a “method”.Its a philosophy,a way of thinking that can and should be adapted to each player and the way THEY think and feel.S&T seems to be a cookie cutter system…again,this may be unfair.
This is gained from talking to people that have taken lessons with S&L instructors,youtube and internet.I may well be miles off the mark.
Hope all is well.
Kevyn.
Is Sean a Stack & Tilt guy? When he shows his own swing on video it looks like it. Just curious.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike,
Sean is not a Stack and Tilt guy. He does share a few, and I stress only a few, ideas that the Stack and Tilt guys value. But as said above he really advocates a turning motion of the hips around the body in the downswing as opposed to S&T which favors and up and out move with the hips. Sean wants the body center over the ball in the back swing, while S&T want the weight on the left and their is a huge difference there. Lastly, just go and look at some video’s on youtube of Sean Foley’s students such as Hunter Mahan, Sean O’Hair, Jamie Lovemark, and now Tiger Woods from the last couple of months. They all stay centered, but all have vastly different finishes, and swings. One big knock on S&T is it teaches all players to swing the same exact way and not every individual body is capable of it.
Well said Tommy!
Tommy,that was a big point for me too.The fact that all the S&T guys finish very similar,swing very similar and all of Foley’s guys have very individualistic approaches to the swing says a lot.
well said.
k.
I must disagree with you Tommy. S&T very much favours a hip turn as indicated by the straightening of the right leg on the backswing. Yes, there is an up and down with the hips but this releases the forward slide on the downswing. Also while the hips and weight may be slightly forward in the S&T, the axis of the shoulder rotation is centered above the ball. When the ball is forward in the stance(such as a driver)the rotation may be slightly behind the ball, but still centered in the stance.
I’ll be watching with more interest now that Tiger seems to have “lost it”. As a 30 year student of the swing beginning with Tommy Armour and ending with a 15 year centrifuge ride called Homer Kelley’s “The Golfing Machine”, I think Tiger is moving away from what made him the best. He is allowing those who are unable to fully understand the elegant and subtle movements that are used to support as well as create the movement of the shaft. He is being pulled back down to the teachings which can have immediate benefits to sub elite players, but do not describe what the best are doing.
Let me say I don’t know anything about Foley, I just don’t like what I think I saw on the range this week. Nor did I like what I think I saw on the range at last years Masters. I told my wife if he was really trying to get the club sort of outside his hands on the way down (which was the little pump drill it looked like he was doing), then he would falter on the weekend.
It appears now that he is working his shoulders very “symmetrically” around the spine and getting into a “covering the ball” posture where his lead shoulder is staying too low for too long. This would dove tail in my mind with the earlier action from the Masters. If this is so, I believe he will not be the player that he was.
He certainly can still win, but he looks to me like he has unknowingly given away his advantage.
Tiger used to have an extreme “tethering” action from his lead shoulder/arm complex (and relatively vertically) which allowed him to not have to take his foot of the gas pedal. It was the main thing that I believed made Tiger… Tiger. It is what allowed him to attack the inside of the golf ball violently, without the worry of Mickelson-like results.
This will be interesting to watch, even if I am wrong in my analysis.
Sorry you thought you lost your post Kevin and happy you didn’t. Not sure what causes that, but I’ll look into it. Also, thanks for posting your impressions.
Andrew
Does anyone else think that all of these guys, Foley, Bennett, Plummer, simply went to a MORAD Mac Ogrady Reaserch an Development seminar a long time ago and just are reusing what they learned and putting their own spin on it. As a PGA professional this is my opinion.
I am amazed when I read about guys like Foley (and Harmon and Haney) who seem to think they are scientists and have discovered something important about the golf swing. All golf science is bunk! The greatest bunk in golf history was written by Homer Kelley and it took him 28 years to create enough confusion to last another 200 years. Why do you suppose the greatest golfers have been illiterates? Do you think Sam Snead ever had a teacher? Do you think Hogan swung they way Herbert Warren Blowhard described in Hogan’s book? How do you explain Lee Travino? It is absurd for Tiger to think he can recover his talent by listening to this or that guru. At his age he must control the club with his hands and take stress off his knees and hips. Tiger, if you are listening, swing the club back with your hands (both of them) and swing it down with your right hand creating speed as soon as possible that feels it is maximizing away from the target (about half way to the ball). That, together with an athletic setup reaching out to the ball, and a braced right leg that creates resistance on the backswing, is all you need (or anyone else needs, either) to hit the ball as well as you will ever hit it.
Oh yeah, one more thing. Get rid of that interlocking grip. Hold it the way Tommy Armour says, but keep your left thumb on top of the shaft, not down the right side. If there is any secret to golf it is keeping the left hand passive in the forward swing.
Jake, Haney had his lead hand so weak that it caused so many problems. That’s not the answer. The guy’s swinging with no freedom. He’s handcuffed. If he goes 70 per cent he can hit a semi-reliable fade, but that’s it. Haney destroyed the greatest talent golf’s known and Foley can’t fix him. It’s a tragedy.
Things coming around?
Interesting conversation that’s taken place here.
Looking forward to seeing what tiger can do this coming.
Andrew, Mulane has really turned a corner with you….he should have met you 20 years ago and he would be on tour…lol.
Rhett’s a 3 now, too.
I’m coming down next spring to get some of your magic!!
Look forward to getting together!
Why is tiger making an exagerated followthrew to the left during practice swings before a shot. It seems similar to graeme mcdowell s practice swing and jim hardy s bak ing glove drill.
It’s funny how Sean Foley seems so arrogant without hardly any evidence (results) to support his “superior” swing. If Tiger couldn’t chip and putt in the first round of this years Masters he would be selling hot dogs out there.
Tiger will figure the swing out to a level that will allow him to win again. But whether he wins 5 more majors to beat Jack will come down to his putting NOT his long game.
Jeff
Most of the people here don’t know what there talking about as tiger and Mahan are the most consistent winningest players on tour right now, if these guys are that good Sean must be do something right. Rosie ain’t too bad either.